New York has my whole attention this week. There are a few things in motion that I am not ready to talk about yet, but trust me, you will hear about them soon.

In the meantime, the newsletter is full. I have been sitting on my HumanX recap longer than I wanted to, and this felt like the right moment to share what that room was actually like. Moderating two panels at a conference of that caliber was one of those experiences that stays with you, and I wanted to do it justice.

Back in November I covered Onton's fundraising round, and something about that story stuck with me. So I went back. Zach Hudson, the founder and CEO, sat down with me for 5 Questions, and it did not disappoint.

Let's get into it.

Paid Subscriber Perks

I'm actively working on three deal opportunities I'll be opening up to this community — two at the intersection of fintech infrastructure and healthcare, and one fast-growing Series A fintech backed by leading GPs. Paid subscribers will get curated access to proprietary dealflow and a seat in an exclusive Slack channel I'm putting together for exactly this kind of thing. You’ll also be able to access exclusive bonus content from 5 Questions With guests.

MEET ZACH HUDSON

Zach Hudson, CEO, Onton

Zach Hudson is the Co-Founder and CEO of Onton, a San Francisco-based AI startup reimagining how people discover and buy products online. Onton uses a neurosymbolic AI engine to collapse a months-long average shopping journey into under a day, helping millions of users cut through noise and make confident purchase decisions. Zach came to the problem through years of building Rcmmd and studying trust in online reviews, teaming up with his co-founder after meeting at a YC Startup School event. The company has since gone on to raise seed funding led by Footwork.

Onton CEO Zach Hudson (L)

5 QUESTIONS WITH ZACH HUDSON

1. What is the problem you saw that others underestimated, and how did it first show up in your own life or work?

E-commerce hasn’t had a paradigm shift since its inception. You have a category page, a product page, and checkout. You search, and then you narrow down with filters. There is an incredible amount of friction baked into the ways we shop that people underestimate. The average shopper spends 15+ hours, across 12 different websites, over the course of 79 days trying to find and decide on a product. That’s crazy, right? And what’s even more unbelievable is that even after LLMs and ChatGPT launched, the time it takes for a shopper to make a purchase decision is increasing, not decreasing.

The idea for Onton started in 2020 when Alex (Co-Founder and CTO of Onton) experienced this problem firsthand. He was looking for a gray couch with wood trim on the bottom, in a mid-century style, for under $800. It took him 30 hours to find it, scrolling through various websites and opening hundreds of tabs.

Our mission is to bring that 79-day shopping journey down to less than 1. Helping consumers make decisions they love, instantly.

There is an incredible amount of friction baked into the ways we shop that people underestimate.

2. What is a decision you made that hurt short-term momentum but preserved your long-term vision?

We could have turned our product into an LLM wrapper and moved much faster, but we found that for all the impressive feats of large language models (LLMs), they end up compounding the pain points of e-commerce. LLMs are generating exabytes of unstructured, unverified data daily, and the tools at shoppers’ disposal are neither prepared nor incentivized to deal with it. The computer science adage of “garbage in, garbage out” applies: you can’t shortcut your way to better search by adding an “intuition” layer on top of bad data.

Collectively, we’ve spent over a year building our own graph database, vector database, and self-learning AI to solve some of the fundamental problems in e-commerce decision-making. Most importantly, so that we can always provide an accurate, trustworthy response.

3. What is a piece of data that changed everything for you?

There are two: Internally, its conversion rate. By giving people great results plus the information they need to make a decision, we’ve seen our conversion rate hit 3x the e-commerce benchmark and almost 10x the existing tools in the market.

Externally, there are a lot of studies that verify the struggles with e-commerce, but a recent one that continues to provide a north star is that more shoppers than ever are abandoning their carts because of analysis paralysis.

4. What is one shift in your market that is not getting enough attention but will define the next five years?

LLMs are causing the mass extinction of the data that they rely on to provide great results (both for training and for search). This is felt acutely in e-commerce. Think of all the incredible expert opinions and reviews from Consumer Reports, Wirecutter, personal blogs, individual product reviews, etc. There is no incentive to create this type of content anymore because products like ChatGPT and Perplexity are summarizing it. In addition, the content that is still being created is now a majority AI-Generated.

Without that data, it’s nearly impossible to rank the best quality products. To help consumers make decisions, we need this type of data. Consumer products that incentivize and create a space on a platform for this type of content to be created will have a major advantage (Reddit is a great example).

LLMs are causing the mass extinction of the data that they rely on to provide great results

5. What is one piece of advice you wish investors understood about building in your category?

Sometimes, it takes a maximally viable product to meet demand. Obvious examples of this would be self-driving vehicles (where you need a certain level of safety to drive), but I also think this applies to purely software products, too. Maybe the most relevant example is Figma, where designers needed a certain critical mass of tools to see adoption (it took them 4 years to see substantial growth).

One of the toughest games in building a startup is knowing if your product needs that or not and persevering until that point.

If you’d like to be featured in an upcoming 5 Questions, reply to this email. In the meantime, here’s how you can support Bear and the Bull:

  • 🤝 Become a sponsor and reach a curated audience of tech and VC buyers

  • 🔓 Upgrade to become a paid subscriber to access proprietary fintech market maps and actively raising early stage companies

  • 👇 Click on the link below

Till next week,

Ilona

P.S. Interested in working with me as a speaker or moderator? Hit “reply” to this email.

Protect Client Trust in Volatile Markets

When markets get shaky, advisors don’t just manage portfolios. They manage a surge of client emails, questions, and last-minute meetings. BELAY’s free Financial Advisor’s Delegation Guide shows how better delegation protects responsiveness, reduces bottlenecks, and helps your firm stay client-facing when pressure and volume rise fast across the entire firm.

Reply

Avatar

or to participate

Keep Reading